Murder-Execution-Killing
Here are some more interesting perspectives:
Government: If a terrorist his strapped up, we have information that she is planning on killing thousands in a mall and is walking to the mall now, is it murder or execution if we remotely explode the bombs prematurely, killing only that person?
Private: Premeditated murder. What is the appropriate consequence? Who should decide the law? A judge or the people through their elected representatives?
Accidental killing involving negligence: For example, DUI, intentionally driving a car with known faulty brakes, not taking down a diseased tree leaning over a person's property.
Self-defense: The recent castle defense laws passed in several states: Should a person even be charged with manslaughter when he kills an armed person who has broken into a house at night?
posted by Chief RZ @ 22.2.06
12 Comments:
It is homicide justifiable as self-defense, just as if a soldier kills an enemy soldier before that enemy has a chance to fire a shot.
Doug-- On the battlefield would it even be homicide? I think the problem is that some do not recognize this new expanded battlefield.
Chief - By "new expanded battlefield" I assume you mean everywhere. If that's the case, it's not a very sound foundation for creation of good law.
The first situation you lay out is a "24" style, completely far out there, not likely to ever happen scenario. Consider the extranious elements here, how long before he reaches the target? How could you possibly remotely detonate his bomb? If you could, would you risk endangering the lives of everyone who might be around him now? If you know what he's doing and where he's heading, why not dispatch a helicopter and take care of it with police and SWAT? You know, like the legal way?
Premeditated murder should get no less than 30 years in prison, to a maximum of life without poss. of parole. Death sentence is never appropriate.
Accidental killing: These cases are so varied and different, it would be stupid to try and set any sort of standard it, that's what courts and judges are for.
The last question is harder, should anyone be held liable for shooting someone that breaks into their house? My personal opinion is that a homeowner shouldn't be liable for that, if you break into houses and steal things for a living, getting shot is a risk you take...
timmah-I'll start with the last which we seem to agree on, mostly. I am not only talking about liability, but legality. This could be the third agreement.
Accidental killing (manslaughter in my state)--Why is it stupid to engage in speculation and discussions. You have, and I certainly enjoy it. Your answer does reveal your prejudice that judges are there to set standards. I would side more with the people making laws themselves. How about: you propose an example of a person being responsible for an accident and not being charged?
I will propose a person darts out from between cars [maybe intentionally] and your car runs over and kills her?
Premeditated has two categories in my state. Amazing that you so quickly come up with a number. As I have stated before, people can kill again, in prison. Execution, as I will get to soon is a viable solution to these type people.
The first has already happened. Without revealing classified reports, bombs can be detected and detonated buy frequencies and other electronic means.
We were not positive where the person's final destination would be, but it was pretty obvious. The point is that why wait. The person is locked and loaded.
One death is far better than 1+1,000.
The point is that this person is on the battlefield and engaged in pre-execution of not a crime, but enemy action.
The Expanded Battlefield has been created by UBL and his cowards. They have already been defeated in Afghanistan and Iraq. Now they are continuing their war illegally as enemy non-combatants. They are the enemy, the bad guys, the evil ones, not us. We are merely following their lead.
We are at war. You need to wake up.
What are you doing in Canada? You still haven't answered that question.
I live, work and go to school in Canada.
I didn't say that it was stupid to speculate, I said it is stupid to try and set some sort of standard for a theoretical situation. Manslaughter cases can encompass any situation in which death occurs as a result of someone else's actions. If a similar case has been tried before, then it is examined in court, this is called precedent, and that's why it exists, to set a bar for the current trial. Criminal punsihment should be decided by courts, juries and judges, that's why they exist. Lawmakers can set guidelines for specific crimes, but beyond that, why even have a sentencing portion of a trial? Or even a trial for that metter?
Execution is no more and no less effective a deterrent than solitary confinement, regardless of the situation, I feel the state has no right to commit anyone to death, and my opinion is shared by every industrialized nation except China. To support execuation is to place yourself in very poor company, in the same league as brutal dictatorships.
Remotely detonating bombs doesen't make any sense, if that were possible on any grand scale, then we wouldn't be having people die from car bombs in Iraq every day. I am confused by the situation you propose, is this in Iraq or the US?
As far as "the expanded battlefield", let's get one thing straight, Bin Laden and Hussien are two very different people and the people that kill in their name have nothing in common but a hatred of American troops and America itself. Many, if not most insurgents in Iraq right now have no previous ties to Bin Laden or Hussein, and have simply joined in on what has become the biggest live training ground for terrorists in the world. Thanks to "heckuvajob" George for that one.
Afghanistan was justified and even necessary, Iraq was a grand mistake.
Chief,
I used "homicide" in its broadest sense as in the killing of another human being. The killing of a terrorist before he or she kills innocents is completely justified as is the killing of an enemy soldier on the battlefield.
Doug
Prescidents like the Dread Scott decision and Roe can be overturned.
The trial by a jury of your peers is different in the USA. In Europe, as I found our recently, the jury are not ordinary citizens.
Execution is the only certain way to ensure that murderers will not repeat their behavior. "Pee-wee" in SC killed over 100 people. What about "If only one could have been saved" like you typed before?
Remotely detonating bombs is and has been quite common for at least the last 5 years. They also use throw-away cell phones, and other methods that change often. The detonation(s) occurred in and on the battlefield. They have also occurred in the USA. Some accidental and premature explosions you may have read could have happened this way. Point being, some "lawyer" could make a case for state execution, and I did and will again. They are and were justified.
Yes, no two people are the same. Both were at war with the USA. One is more religious than the other. Both had ties and coordinated their efforts when they saw fit.
Yes, if Iraq can transition into a democracy, our enemies will have suffered quite a defeat, and by Iraqis to boot.
That democracy will be quite an example just like those in East Germany saw the lies of their communist rulers.
They were shot trying to leave East Berlin. Do you wonder why? Contrast that to a few alleged isolated mistakes by my country. I'll be glad to send you a book, but the link to this is free: http://magyartruth.blogspot.com/2006/02/einser-kanal.html
If you are not a completely brainwashed communist, I would like to introduce you to the evils of communism.
Then you may gain a perspective of the real evils of this world and what I and we in the military fought against.
I just thought I'd also mention that I did read up on what you linked to, and while these are all terrible evils, I'm interested in stopping present day evils, the ones that don't require the use of the time machine to prevent.
timmah-- I will publish and respond only to civil replies.
If we do not learn from history, we are doomed to repeat the past. We must know the enemy. It is communism and facism. Until lately, because of the Iron Curtain, most of us in the west knew nothing of the millions that Stalin slaughtered. This fact must be told, understood and accepted. For the present, we are at war, we were attacked. Isolated instances of possibly questionable treatment will happen. They "happened" far, far more, are still happening in communist countries and facsit countries today. So, I suggest that you go to these countries, work with the new conservative government in Canada and leave the defense of the USA to US. If you are a US citizen, you can enlist in our Army or Air Force and help defeat our enemy. It is not a second or third country citizen talking to UBL. Take a look at my latest post, just another group of Iraqis that the MSM conveniently overlooks on a daily basis because of their bias.
Chief I think you've been sold a bit too much on Macarthy era propaganda on "evil Communism". If you think Stalin, represents what is essentially "Communist", I don't think there's a chance that you'll be convinced otherwise.
People in the military are easy prey for the Bush propaganda machine's "we are the gods of security" claims. They'll keep feeding war-profiteering companies with free, no bid, contracts behind your backs, while keeping the public on its feet with theories about terrorists and other boogie men armed and ready for assault.
Wiarton-
I believe that I have seen your name before. This is a blog about The Truth, not speculation. I have not been sold. I sought information, evaluated it, and came to a conclusion based on facts, not Hollywood movies. As posted elsewhere here, communists were on the payroll and in our government also. I am not prey. I decided to defend my country. Many fled to Canada in discrace and have no standing to now say anything nor have a vote on our government. I have seen first hand, the good works of KBR. Would you like to work for them? Time to put up or shut up as they say. KBR completed a concrete project in a war zone in one week under fire. The same job here in the states would have taken over a month. Their job was done by hand, not using the latest machines. The job was not done behind anyone's back. Our? Don't you live in Canada? There are no theories about terrorists. Take a look down this blog. You will see people jumping out of the WTC. Torture? Would you have jumped or been burned alive on the 85th floor? Please do not post any more here, you are out of touch with reality.
For those ignorant of classifications, here is an example of an unclassified one: Note the (U)...
"(U) The briefing slides contained a “Summary of Known Iraq -al-Qaida Contacts, 1990-2002,” including an item “2001: Prague IIS Chief al-hi meets with Mohammed Atta in April.” Another slide was entitled “Fundamental Problems with How Intelligence Community is Assessing Information.” It faulted the IC for requiring “juridical evidence” for its findings. It also criticized the IC for “consistent underestimation” of efforts by Iraq and al-Qaida to hide their relationship and for an “assumption that secularists and Islamists will not cooperate.” A “findings” slide summed up the Iraq -al-Qaida relationship as “More than a decade of numerous contacts,” “Multiple areas of cooperation,” “Shared interest and pursuit of WMD,” and “One indication of Iraq coordination with al-Qaida specifically related to 9/11."
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